In what ways do the writings of Hafez meet or defy your expectations of Islamic thought? What elements strike you as consistent or inconsistent with your own understanding of Islam? Use specific quoted passages from the Rubaiyat of Hafez and from the article that contains passages from the Quran to illustrate your answers. Remember that your response should be a minimum of 200 (meaningful and intellectually stimulating discursive) words. Submissions are due by Friday at midnight, and no posts made after that time will be considered.
39 Comments
Kadence Lanier
2/18/2016 10:55:26 am
All thoughts and preconceptions aside, Islam is actually a super interesting and genuine religion. Before reading Hafez and parts of the Quran I did not have a very strong understanding of its principles, but now that I have, I know that Islamic religion puts huge emphasis on things like compassion, kindness, respect in marriage, loving your enemies, forgiveness...all of which are also strong principles of Christianity. I did not realize that the Quran and the Bible have so much in common, and I did not expect Islam to teach so many similar concepts. What I did understand before the reading is that Muslims believe that Allah provides a sort of compassionate and selfless love for his people - otherwise known as Agape. This unconditional love is the same spiritual love that Christians believe God has for us, so I found it really interesting that both religions have yet another factor in common. When reading Hafez we see many examples of this kind of love expressed through poetry. In verse 23 it says:
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Ingalls
2/18/2016 11:44:56 am
What a thoughtful post! I think it is very difficult putting aside misconceptions. Most of us, even when faced with factual evidence, still cling to stereotypical views. A Theology professor of mine once told me, "We are all more alike than we are different," in reference to religions of the world--whether Islam, Christianity, Taoism, Paganism, etc. There are few exceptions. Most fundamental laws of societies are based on the values that are expressed in their faiths, and most countries laws and morals (murder is bad, helping people is good, etc.) are relatively similar.
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Lucas Lysne
2/19/2016 10:09:36 am
I think this is something good to note about most religions and people, is that we all start from a very similar position, and usually on the large are very much alike. One problem is that we as humans let small differences on things divide us extremely far apart, so that we start to blindly fight and hurt and yell for little reason other than a small disagreement on some trivial thing. The entire divide between sunni and shia islam is the political argument of who should succeed the prophet Muhammed, whether it be from his bloodline or just a very pious individual, a simple disagreement that leads to a huge rift in the Islamic population. But I do as well think that it’s important to note the similarities that arise of our lives and our practices. Many people argue that there’s no way that an atheist can derive morals from life, with no guiding texts, but how did all of these texts come to the same conclusions, unless these ideals are universally seen as moral ways to live and can be deduced from outside the context of divine edict? We all come from a very similar place, and unless you have a deviant form of the MAOA-L gene, you probably value the same things as moral or amoral, on a large scale.
Ingalls
2/18/2016 12:53:36 pm
http://themuslimtimes.info/2015/11/19/two-hundred-verses-about-compassionate-living-in-the-quran-5/
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Lucas Lysne
2/18/2016 01:11:58 pm
I myself didn’t hold a lot of presuppositions about the muslim faith before reading these texts, insomuch as saying that I knew of the regular generalizations of the media and culture and choose to disvalue them as on the large being unreasonable. I know mostly of the regular nature of the islamic people I’ve encountered, that I would say is no more of a problem or irregularity than any christian I’ve encountered. So what I’m saying is that largely I think that the average muslim and christian are not incredibly different in their affectations, and this is the view I came in with in reading Hafez. I do have to say that some of the ideals of wild loving and drinking seem not to gel with what I know of conservative islam and its laws and ideals, but also against conservative christianity and its ideals. As much as I am informed of the more liberal aspects of the Sufi following of islam, I can not necessarily think of a sect of christianity which I would know as being as liberal in its practices. I mostly say this because of the christian treatment of sex and it’s importance, as well as the general theme of denial of pleasure and ascetic lifestyle that intercedes christian practices. I’m sure there is themes of both in both religions though. So, I would say that Hafez’s general liberalness in relation to pleasures of the flesh is a little surprising generally as coming from islam, as surprising as it would be from christianity.
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Kadence Lanier
2/18/2016 02:01:35 pm
I completely agree with your views. Islam and Christianity have a lot in common, so it was really cool to read about that. I particularly enjoyed reading about the different types of love displayed in both Hafez and the Quran, seeing as they seem to be common among both Christianity and Daoism. Are there any parts of Islam that you would consider following, even if you didn't fully commit yourself to the religion? I think it has a lot of great concepts and ideals.
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Lucas Lysne
2/19/2016 09:04:47 am
I’d like to think that there are things from most religions that can be gleaned as good ways to live, not just Islam. Like the ideal that you don’t do unto others what you wouldn’t to yourself, the “golden rule”, one that appears in some form in most religions (although I won’t say this axiomatically is true, I’m sure that you could find exceptions), treat the poor well, generally good ideals like that that you could deduce without divine intervention. Religions usually have rules and systems that we can generally see as good, with some variants based on specific demands of what usually was the first group of practitioners, but generally with things that are good for an organized society. So while I don’t commit myself to any supernatural explanation of life and its laws, I do find some of the ideals good and followable, yes.
Holli Heinen
2/18/2016 01:21:55 pm
The writings of Hafez defied my expectations of Islamic thought immensely. I believe that this has occurred due to the stereotyping of the Islamic culture. I did not expect the writings to be so deep and meaningful. They include elements such as beauty, peace, depression, tradition, compassion, and entertainment. I also now see that the Quran includes compassionate elements that characterize love, spirit, and logic. It is very interesting and includes multiple components that also arise in the Bible. For example in the Rubaiyat of Hafiz, poem 20 says, “This tired life is the flood of age, With a full cup began this outrage. Wake up, and see the carrier of time Slowly carries you along life’s passage.” In my view, a full cup represents the cup that all of God’s people drank from and the carrier of time is him. Although this is how I see it, Islams may think of Allah. All of the poems contain different elements of human interaction that can also be seen in the Quran. In the Quran it is stated that Allah enjoys “the doing of good to others” (Shah). Jesus believes the same thing. Another example of similarity uses the example of forgiving:
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Emily Groseclose
2/19/2016 06:42:42 pm
Do you think that you could follow some aspects of Islam now that you view it as so similar to your own religion? Or maybe you're so committed to Christianity that you wouldn't do that anyway? I know it's a stretch, but it could be that you could use some of the verses in your every day life.
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Jon Gilmore
2/18/2016 01:22:51 pm
Before I read Hafez I thought all Muslims was terrorist and killers. Now that read Hafez I now know thst I was wrong. I feel a little bit ashamed of my self, but I feel like lots of Americans are the same way. I think everyone should read Hafez so they can see that Muslims are able piece and love and kindness not killing and hate.
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Kadence Lanier
2/18/2016 01:43:09 pm
I didn't think all Muslims were killers, but I definitely had that same stereotype in the back of my mind. It's crazy how just a few radicals can create a bad reputation for the rest of the nation. What parts of Hafez seemed to go along with what you thought? There are many areas that talk about kindness and compassion, or respect when talking to your parents. Did any of these characteristics seem familiar to you, or were they completely unexpected after reading the Quran?
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Connor Steiger
2/19/2016 07:55:57 am
I also thought that all Muslims were terrorist and out to kill us but I knew there were some out to do good.I thought the exact same way until I also read the Quran.
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Jarred Kasper
2/19/2016 01:55:45 pm
Why did you think that they were all killers? what stereotypes did you believe in that made you think this way?
Jarred Kapser
2/19/2016 01:54:04 pm
What was the reasoning for you thinking that all Muslims were terrorist? Did the stereotypes that are said everyday lead you to think that "they" were going to kill everyone or was it just you're own thoughts about the topic? What concepts changed after you reading the article?
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Emily Groseclose
2/19/2016 06:29:12 pm
I think a lot of people definitely have that stereotype in their heads and I think it's great that you've changed your mind and want others to read it too. Has the article or the Rubaiyat encouraged you to be kind or change anything about yourself? Or maybe realize something about yourself?
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Samantha Schroeder
2/19/2016 09:28:44 pm
I had the same image of Muslims in my head that you did. Do you think the same kind of stereotyping can apply to other groups of people? For example, Feminists have a "bad name" because the ones with the loudest voices are shouting about hating men. In reality, feminism is so much more than women trying to prove themselves. Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions, everyone should first inform themselves of what beliefs a group really hold.
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Samantha Schroeder
2/18/2016 06:58:44 pm
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Connor Steiger
2/19/2016 08:00:08 am
I also did not think you could look at the Islamic bible two ways, I only thought of the bad they had caused, when they most Islams are out to mean good.
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Holli Heinen
2/19/2016 01:35:04 pm
It sounds like everyone had a misconception about the Islamic culture before they read the writings. I agree that it was very interesting to learn about. However, I still am not fully convinced that I would be comfortable with being around a group of Muslims. What do you think? Also, did you see any similarities between the Bible and the Quran besides reward and respect that you mentioned before? I thought that they were very similar at times and related to similar values.
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Samantha Schroeder
2/19/2016 09:31:29 pm
I will admit that not all of my prejudice against Muslims is gone, but I understand them more because I have learned more about what they stand for. They are not all about terrorism and killing people. The religion includes compassion and respect as well. I noticed many similarities between the Bible and Quran, such as names were the same and the basic beliefs lined up, also.
Dallas Evernden
2/19/2016 01:59:14 pm
Are there any quotes from the Rubaiyat that interested you? Do you think that the amount of love presented in those poems has anything to do with your changing views of Islamic religion? I agree with you on the fact that a lot of your views changed after reading these articles and passages. Do you think that you are going to keep that stereotype deep in the back of your mind even if you don't want too? Would you consider yourself to be comfortable riding on a plane next to multiple people that are clearly practicing Islamic religion, meaning that they are in their traditional dress?
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Dallas Evernden
2/18/2016 09:36:29 pm
Before reading both of these passages, I really had no clue what ideals were part of the Islamic religion. When someone said Islam, my mind would always go straight to 9/11; not that I wanted it too, but that is just how it has been perceived to me growing up. Because of this, there was really no consistency between my thoughts of Islam and the readings. Although I think the readings of the Rubaiyat by Hafez and the passages from the Quran are very interesting, it is very new to me. I think the passages from the Quran were especially interesting. I do not consider myself to be a religious person, but from what I know, the Bible and the Quran actually have many similarities. They have the same basic principles. It is continuously stated in the passages from the Quran that, "Allah is with those who are righteous and who do good." This follows the same principles that God has set for Christians. God wants his people to do good, and rise above the evil in life. I think that the similarities between the two religions are very intriguing. I found the Rubaiyat, being poetry and not exactly a portrayal of religion, to be simply about love and romance. Because of the fact that I did not really have any ideas about the Islamic religion before reading both of these articles, I find it fascinating that one religion can have so many sides to it. My original thought of Islam was terrorism, and the Rubaiyat is simply about love. In quatrain 8 of the Rubaiyat, Hafez says referring to his lover, "my love is brighter than the sun, put in the heavens, my only one." If I would have read this without knowing what religion it came from, I would not have guessed Islam. In this particular instance, My thoughts are completely contradicted. I am amused by the fact that I thought something so far off of what this religion really is. With that being said, the Bible has many different sides to it as well, some good, some dark. All in all, both of these religions have uncanny similarities, and in the beginning I did not think they were alike at all. It's crazy that from just a couple terrible actions from a few people can change an entire country's views about one religion.
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Holli Heinen
2/19/2016 11:46:21 am
After reading the Quran and Hafez, have your stereotypical views changed about Muslims? For example, would you be able to be comfortable in a group of people practicing the Islamic culture? I know that I felt the same way you did before the writings. It was so interesting learning about Allah and his people though. I now understand more about the Islamic culture and I totally took it for granted before. Also, what do you think classifies as the "dark side" of the bible?
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Dallas Evernden
2/19/2016 01:46:13 pm
Yes my views have changed as stated in my post. Yes I would be more comfortable than I was before, but still not completely comfortable. I think that stereotype will always be present in the back of my mind, whether I want it to or not because that is the way I have grown up. I do not in any way consider myself an "expert" on the Bible or even having a well understanding of it. I simply know that there are dark parts that are in the Bible that are not necessarily supposed to be taken so literally. So just for arguments sake, I looked up some of the darker parts that are presented in the Bible. "causing parents to cannibalize their own children." (Lev. 26:29; Jer. 19:9; Lam. 2:20; Ezek. 5:10) "causing pregnant women to having their wombs ripped open and their children dashed on the ground." (Hos. 13: 16)
Jarred Kasper
2/19/2016 01:47:12 pm
I agree with you so much on this! Did you change your views on the subject? when I was reading this my thoughts about all of the different stereotypes just went away.
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Dallas Evernden
2/19/2016 01:52:28 pm
I think that some of my stereotypical views went away, but I think that specific stereotype will always be stuck in the back of my mind.
Connor Steiger
2/19/2016 07:52:28 am
Before reading Hafiz I thought all Muslims were out to harm us in some way. I had stereotyped them before getting to understand their way of life. I thought that Christianity and the Islamic religion were totally different, but after reading they have many similarities. They both ask us to do good and not harm others, I think it is amazing that a few radicalists can make us stereotype that religion.
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Do you think that learning about Islamic religion has helped you to look past your stereotyping? I know that the prejudice against them is very deeply rooted into our minds because terrorism seems to always come from them, but maybe we can learn to look past that and coexist without holding anything against Muslims.
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Kylee Sneve
2/20/2016 01:12:20 am
It seems as if almost everyone has had the same impressions of the Islamic religion. After reading Hafez and the Quran, were you interested in learning more about Islamic beliefs and their religion. It's interesting because the Quran and the Bible are very similar, when we all would assume that they were two completely different things. When in reality they are the same thing, just with different names.
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Jarred Kasper
2/19/2016 11:04:20 am
Before reading these passages I didn't know anything about the Islamic culture. I thought about all of the stereotypes that go along with people people from that background. "They" are normally construed with 9/11 and bombing, because this is what we are thought to believe. We don't actually know where there coming from because they are though of as outsiders, but we don't actually KNOW because we haven't given the time or place to get to know "them." From reading the passage "Two hundred verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran" I've learned that there culture isn't any different than our, yes they had different beliefs but all in, all we are the same. I am in no way a religious person. But, from what I know the Bible and the Quran have many things in common, Allah rewards those who do good. Like the bible you are rewarded for doing good deeds. I think that were the same in our own ways and that people should listen and understand there thoughts about what is going on, instead of just giving into the stereotypes that are thought to go along with Islamic people.
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Dallas Evernden
2/19/2016 01:51:19 pm
Do you have any thoughts on the dark sides of both religions? Like Ingalls had brought up in earlier discussions, "more people kill in the name of Christ than any other reason." The suicide bombers of 9/11 thought that they were cleansing the world by committing the acts of terror. They were brainwashed by Osama Bin Laden, but they still thought that what they were doing was justified through Allah and the Quran. So in what situations do you think that Christianity has these types of dark sides?
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Kylee Sneve
2/20/2016 12:56:19 am
Wow! You and I, both, have the same thoughts on this. I came into this topic not knowing much about Islamic religion at all. But, after reading Hafez and the Quran, I learned that those who do good will be loved by Allah, and those who do bad will be forgiven and still loved. After reading this, do you have the same thoughts about it?
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Ashley Wegner
2/19/2016 11:36:12 am
I would like to believe the Hafez both shattered my expectations and did nothing in such regard to the Islamic faith.
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Layne Harris
2/21/2016 11:54:54 pm
It strikes me as a somewhat peculiar thing that religions that seemed to have started so (geographically) far apart share so many of the same principals or even stories. Not a religious text, but we see in the Epic of Gilgamesh a story that is very similar to a story in the Bible: the story of a flood and an arc. Perhaps these texts managed to transcend time only to split into many different iterations of the same thing. Furthermore in the other direction, maybe these early texts that have been forgotten all started from a single origin point. That's a bit above my paygrade though. :)
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Emily Groseclose
2/19/2016 06:26:28 pm
Before learning about it in class, I didn't know much about the Islam religion if anything at all. I'd seen one video before with some scriptures included about love and kindness, but I was never really exposed to anything involved with the practices of Islam. The Rubaiyat and the article have really helped me to understand the religion even a little bit more and concrete my understanding of how much Muslims are unlike what our stereotype makes their religion look like. I'm not sure that I actually had expectations going into this, but I was hopeful that it was opposite of how we see them. Our society makes Islam seem like it's oppressive and not forgiving, but it's not that way at all for the followers. The article includes scriptures that repeat themselves over and over again, saying, "And Allah loves those who do good," and, "We reward the doers of good." The Islam religion really encourages kindness and love and compassion, which is something that our society doesn't look at. The Rubaiyat also includes many verses about love, pain, and drinking, which are never included in our stereotype of Muslims. Many verses speak to "you" like the speaker is not speaking to the reader, but to his love. One verse says, "I said, your lips said, your lips we revive; I said, your mouth said, sweetness we derive; I said your words, he said, Hafiz said; May all sweet lips be joyous and alive" (3). These are the kinds of things that I didn't expect from Islam, but now that I know about it, I'm much more comfortable and respectful of the religion and it's actually much more interesting than I thought it would be.
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Kylee Sneve
2/20/2016 12:49:27 am
Before reading the Quran and the Rubaiyat of Hafez, I honestly knew nothing about the Islamic religion. I didn't think it would be very fun or interesting at all, however, it was actually quite interesting. My initial impression on Islamic people was that they were "bad" people. I now know, that they are actually people just like us. It really sucks that they all have the first impression of being terrorists or scary people just because of the clothing they wear. From reading the Quran, I learned that there is a huge emphasis on forgiveness, selflessness, forgiveness in marriage, kindness, and compassion. You will find all of these throughout the Quran and see that it kind of repeats it a lot. For example, here are some quotes that are stated more than once throughout the Quran: "Thus do We reward those who do good. Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good." As you can see from this, the Islamic beliefs are taken very seriously, however if you don't follow it the Allah will forgive you and let you do good. I learned that those who do good, are respectful, are kind, and selfless, will be loved and respected by Allah. After opening my mind and thinking more intellectual about this topic, I found it very interesting and in the end it totally changed my views about Islamic religion.
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Layne H
2/21/2016 11:46:19 pm
It seems that the Quran parallels the bible quite closely in the 'forgiveness' department. It seems (like the bible) that there is almost nothing that can't be forgiven.
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Layne H
2/21/2016 11:29:41 pm
Before reading of Hafez in this class, I really had no logically based knowledge on Islamic thought. All I knew was either hearsay, or in the form of slander by fear-mongers that told me that "Islam bombers" are the bad people with turbans. This isnt an isolated case, either; this is heard in the news or by my peers. I admit, although I would like to say that I am above this line of thought, when Ingalls said "Would you feel completely normal sitting next to a Muslim on a plane?" I was taken aback, realizing that the only thing that put me above the fear-mongers was the fact I am willing to learn. My expectations going into this were weak at best, having my knowledge based on no real facts, but I had hoped that I would be pleasantly surprised (which I was).
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Allen Longstreet
2/26/2016 11:14:13 pm
We had a quiet conversation in class about Islamic and there were tons of stereotypes witch we have gotten from the social media and its just crazy how much of an impact social media has on our lives and what they get us to believe. I thought that the Muslims were out to start wars and kill a bunch of people because of the stereo types they were given but after reading the to Hafiz and it made me realize that both religions want the same this for us to be good to one another and not harm each other,
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